Louay Safi, Islamic Society of North America: Well Osama Bin Ladden has violated Islamic teachings and of course I’m not sitting in judgment on him--

Asman: But is he--is he, from your opinion and according to the fatwa that’s about to be issued-- is he an apostate, that is a stain to the religion of Islam?

Safi: Well the fatwa has already been issued a few days back, and definitely he has violated Islamic values, he has done something against Islam, and that’s what the fatwa has stressed, that those who target civilians and civilian properties are acting against the teachings of Islam.

Asman: But some folks would say unless you put in the mind of potential terrorist bombers the idea that perhaps, just perhaps, you put-- you put the seed in there, he may go to hell for what he is doing that spend eternity in hell, unless you put that seed in his mind he won’t stop himself from doing it.

Safi: Well, you see as a Muslim, I can’t sit in judgment as to what will happen afterlife. This is not my position, It’s not my knowledge; what I can say is that what he has done is against Islamic teachings, and Islam prohibits completely attacking civilians, so he’s violated-- and we know that he Qur’an has promised punishment to those who-- who take innocent life.

Asman: Does that make him an apostate though, someone who is actually against the religion itself?

Safi: Well-- well definitely against the religion, in the sense that he has given a bad name to Islam, he has interpreted Islam in a way that most of us would-- would disagree with him, would-- would think that it is demeaning and demonizing for our faith. So we don’t agree with him.

Asman: Okay, now how about folks who had done things that in the past have been close to not necessarily Osama personally, but people like him, like Sami Al-Aryan for example, who has invited to conferences that he hosted people like-- like the ‘93 World Trade Center bomber, the blind Sheikh, uh would you consider him also as an apostate?

Safi: I would like to hear the verdict of the judge, the-- as you know, the lawsuit is still proceeding, and there is litigation. I haven’t heard all the facts and he’s-- if he is really supporting the killing of innocent people, then I think he would also be acting against--

Asman: Well he-- he invited the Sheikh, the blind Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman-- he invited the sheikh to one of his conferences in the past so clearly he feels comfortable-- uh being seen with the guy, somebody who was convicted-- by the way he was convicted in the ‘93 bombing of the World Trade Center, but he was convicted in conspiring to bomb New York landmarks. Go ahead.

Safi: Of course this is a problem-- you know, I don’t believe in guilt by association, and I don’t believe that if one has gotten in contact with another person who-- you know-- turned out to be a criminal that this person could be judged as a criminal as well. So I have no idea whether he knew what the Sheikh was doing, and I have no way to judge--you know-- him at this point.

Asman: Now again I don’t want to belittle what you are doing-- these details are very important though-- again not so much as the world at large, but really the job of the Muslim community, a lot of folks thinks, is to put the idea-- the doubt in the mind of folks who may be considering helping out terrorists and the more specific you can get the better.

Safi: I-- I agree with you and in fact the fatwa does-- does the following. It says that anyone who targets innocent civilians is-- or properties-- he would be acting against Islam, and also says that anyone who cooperates with people-- individuals and groups-- who are involved in terrorism they are against Islam and-- and this is unacceptable from an Islamic point of view, and we are not going to-- to condone that.

Asman: Well and-- and again our commendations to you for the fatwa, it's-- it’s about time. Good to have it out there. Dr. Louay Safi, from the Islamic Society of North America Thank you sir for coming.

Safi: My pleasure.

Asman: Best of luck to you.